Berle Swagerty

At first glance, Mr. Swagerty appeared to be a gruff, grumpy  old man.  As I introduced myself, he said “Well what do you want?”  I explained how I wanted to interview him about the wisdom and experiences of his life.  He just grumbled something under his breath.  At that moment, a young nurse walked through the door to see if he needed anything.  “I  just want to be left alone!”  he replied in a grumpy tone.   Shocked and visibly upset, she left.  Then, looking at me, he commented, “Oh, you're still here?”  Looking downward, he watched for my reaction out of the corner of his eye.  Then I saw it; a mischievous little grin appeared. I was being tested.   I stated that I just wanted to visit with him about his life, or he could sit there by himself all day.... his choice.  “Well, I guess you can stay,” he replied.  I had passed the test.

 

 

Berle Arthur Swagerty was born on February 5, 1908 in Rocky, Oklahoma. Together, he and his wife, Fredia, had two children, Jeanne and Jim. Fredia passed away in 2000. Berle worked as a public school teacher for 46 years, teaching industrial arts, and attended college during his summer breaks to further his education. After 13 years he earned a bachelor’s degree in education from Oklahoma State University, and four more years of part-time college earned him his master’s degree. He was the first in his family to ever attend college.

After being a teacher for 46 years, what do you think about education?

I believe that education is important, but then, I’m a teacher. Education helps to prepare

you for not only for your career, but also for life. Back in my day, most people didn’t go

to college. You were lucky if you even got to finish high school. Maybe that's why those were such hard times. These days, a good education is necessary. If you’re not educated, an employer won’t even look at you. It may be the only difference between a good job and minimum wage.

How much education do you think you need?

Well I guess it depends of what you want to do. Education is a life long process. You never really stop learning, and you don’t get it all at once. I went to school each summer for 13 years to get my college degree, and four more to get my master's. It was that important to me. It helped me be a better teacher, and it helped me to provide better for my family. Sure, it took me a long time.... but I got it. Now days you've got to keep learning. Things are changing so fast, technology and such. If you stop learning the whole world will just fly right past you and leave you behind. I think these days, education is more important than ever. One thing about knowledge, it's the best investment you can ever make, and it’s the only thing that no one can take away from you.

How long were you married to your wife Fredia?

Sixty-five years.

So what was your secret?

If you want a good marriage, you have to love each other. If you love each other that

means you’ll take care of each other. We got married for better or worse. Sometimes

marriage isn’t easy, but life isn’t easy. When my wife got sick, I took care of her. I had

to; I loved her. It wasn’t easy, but I loved her. That’s what you’re supposed to do, take

care of each other. That’s the promise you make. People don’t take that seriously

enough. If you take those vows and say “I do”, you’d better live up to it.

Tell me about how you managed your money.

Well for one thing, we worked hard to make ends meet. We had to. Sometimes I had to get a second job, or three jobs. I had to provide for my family; it was my responsibility. I had to do whatever was necessary to put food on the table. They were depending on me.

Another thing was, we never spent more than we made. That gets people in trouble. If we couldn’t afford it, we didn’t buy it. If something’s paid for, they can’t come and take it away.

And I always tried to save money. Each month I would take a little bit out of each check and

put it in savings. You never know when you’re going to need it. My wife (laughing) used to get

mad at me because I would put money in the bank instead of letting her go out and buy

things. But then when she got sick, we had the money we needed to take care of her. We didn’t have to go into debt to pay her medical bills. I sure was glad that I had saved all those years.

One day (crying), not long before she died, she took my hand and she smiled at me and told me that now she knew why I had saved all that money. I don't know what I would've done if I hadn't been able to take care of her. You never know what life's gonna throw at you; you’d better be

prepared.

What is the greatest lesson you ever learned?

The biggest lesson I ever learned was to respect your elders. By that I mean listen to

them and learn from them. They have been where you are and they know how to handle

the problems that you’re going through. I wish I had listened more. It would’ve saved

me a lot of trouble. That lesson applies to your whole life. There’s always someone older

and wiser than you that has already been through what you’re going through. You need to

find those people and listen to them. Most young folks think that us old folks don’t know

what we’re talking about. They think they know it all, so they don’t need to listen to

anyone else. I was like that. I sure wished I had listened more. My life would’ve been a whole

lot easier.

Do you ever think about dying?

Yeah, I think about dying a lot. I’m sure my days are numbered here. You never know

what’s going to happen, whether it will be easy or hard, but that’s the way life is,

sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it’s not. That’s life. I’m not afraid of it, that doesn’t

matter, it’s going to happen anyway.

What do you think happens after we die?

I don’t know what will happen after I die, nobody does I guess. Sometimes I think I’ve got things figured out, but the more I think about it, the more I don’t know. Just make sure your life counts for something. Because someday, it’ll be too late.

What do you think your life counted for?

Well I think it counted for my family, my wife and my boys. And I think I mattered to some of my students. I had a lot of students over 46 years. I'd like to think that I made a difference to a few of them. I'm sure I could've done a lot more good than I did, but it's too late now. Maybe I should've worked harder at that....I don't know. Everybody wants their life to count, but it's not gonna happen by accident.

Berle Swagerty's life counted, to me personally, and to countless students and teachers over his 46 year career. Mr. Swagerty was the first interview I did when I started this book project. I didn't know what to expect from him or the others I would interview. I certainly wasn't prepared to cry with him as he told me about his wife dying. The gruff old man that I initially greeted changed into one of the most beautiful human beings I've ever met when he opened his heart and shared with me the most intimate moments of his life. I came for an interview, I left with a friend and a mentor.

Shortly after this interview, Berle Swagerty died on January 14, 2008, just 22 days before his 100^th birthday. It was my intention to only include people over 100 years old in this book. However, because of his proximity to 100 years, his practical wisdom, and the impact he made on my life, I simply couldn't exclude him. After all, true wisdom is ageless. Thank you Mr. Swagerty, your certainly made a difference in my life.

“Everybody wants their life to count,

but it's not gonna happen by accident.”

Berle Swagerty

Lillie Segar

Lillie Louise Phillips was born March 9, 1908 in Meadowvale, Ontario to English immigrant parents just eight months after they had settled in Canada. Growing up poor in a family of eight children, Lillie's childhood was difficult.  “We would walk along the railway tracks, picking up pieces of coal just to heat our home.” Lillie attended school through the sixth grade before dropping out to go to work and help care for the family and her sick mother.  In 1927 she met Art Seager, whom she  married at age  27, after dating him for eight years.  Together they had two children, Richard and Arthurlyn. Life continued to be a struggle for the family, but through hard work and determination, they managed to survive. After losing a leg and a foot to diabetes, Art died in 1974 after 39 years of marriage.  Lillie continued to work until retiring at age 69, but remained active in various civic groups and social activities

You said life was hard?

Life was hard. When I was a little girl, we didn't even have enough blankets on our beds to keep us warm, so we'd cover up with newspapers. Sometimes we would go to the Stuart Street coke ovens and pick up coke in potato sacks to drag home. Coke is kind of like coal, we used it to heat our home. My brother Richard and I had to walk two miles just to get water to drink, and in the winter, we would have to pull it home on a sleigh. One winter my brother made a harness for the dog and the dog would pull the sleigh home with the copper boiler pot full of water. But the toughest thing was when my brother Richard died. He was only 18. It broke my heart so much. When we laid the casket I said to myself, “If I ever get married and I have a little boy I'd name him after my brother,” and I did. My son's name is Richard.

So how did you deal with all those struggles?

We just did what we had to do to survive. We didn't have any money, so whatever we needed, it was up to us. If we needed coal for heat, we walked the railway tracks until we found enough. If we needed water, we'd walk two miles to the well to get it. When my mother took sick, I quit school to take care of her and the family. After I got married, we worked as janitors looking after eight apartments and two stores, scrubbing stairways and hallways on my hands and knees. It was hard, we never really had much any money, but we managed. We just did whatever we had to do to make it.

So how did you manage your money?

I never had any money to manage. My friends would say “Lillie, let's sit and have a cup of tea.” I wouldn't spend ten cents for a cup of tea; I couldn't afford it. I didn't have a car; I walked everywhere I went. I wouldn't even take the bus because it cost money. All I ever got was minimum wage. I didn't save. I didn't have any money to save. 

 

What would you tell your grandchildren about money?

First of all, get a good education. Education is very important. And you've got to be willing to work hard. I worked hard all my life. I started working at age 15 for .25 cents an hour and worked until I was 69. Today kids get far too much without having to work for it; it spoils them. When I was little, we had one toy and we would take off our stockings from our feet and hang them for Santa. We'd get a an apple and an orange and Daddy would always put a lump of coal in our stockings. I still have it! I never threw it away! Children today don't know what it means to work hard and go without things.

You said education is important. Why?

I was so cross-eyed that mother kept me home so I didn't start school til I was seven. Later when I was 13, mother took sick and I missed a lot of schoolin' to take care of her and keep house. When I was 15 I quit school to go to work and go to a technical school one day a week. They asked me what I wanted to take, hairdressing or typewriting. I said, “What's typewriting?” I would've loved to have taken typewriting but I didn't know what it meant! I was dumb.

My kids would come home with homework and I couldn't help them. I didn't know the answers myself. I never learned nothin' in school, but I had a hunger to learn and I taught myself everything I know. I joined the Knights of Pythias, and that is what educated me. When they initiated me the President stood up and spoke, and she didn't even look at her book! She recited it all from memory. I said to myself, if I could do that I'd give a million dollars. From that day every office I took, I memorized every book I had. The Pythian Order educated me. Everything I know I owe them, and I still belong today. I wish I had gotten a good education. I think if I had gotten an education, I could have gone a lot further in life.

What's the most important thing in life?

Helping other people. I help everybody. I'd want somebody to help me if I couldn't do it myself. After I got married, I took care of my mother for 23 years. There were eight of us kids and none of the others would take her. They wouldn't even help with her expenses. My brother Jack took my sisters to court to try to make them pay towards her keep but they appealed and the judge said at that time girls don't have to pay to keep their mother, only boys had to pay. But none of them ever paid, not even Jack. I didn't have any money but I did the best I could. As we left court that day, Mom cried to think that out of eight kids none would take care of her. I said, “Mom I'll do it.” I had to do it.

What is your best piece of advice about life?

Treat others like you'd like to be treated. People aren't born all the same. Some people are born thoughtful and other people are born thoughtless, but I always give them the benefit of the doubt. Many times they were so wrong, but I just kept my mouth shut. I never fight with anybody. Nobody wins an argument.

Do you think about dying?

I don't mind if the Lord took me tomorrow. I just pray that the Lord takes me before the old devil gets me! I'm not afraid of dying. We all gotta die sometime. I hope the Lord can take me without there being any suffering, that's all. That's all I pray for.

The Lord took Lillie Seager on November 19, 2010 at the age of 101. She left behind 2 children, 4 grandchildren, 3 great- grandchildren, and a countless others whose lives she had touched. Her mantra was, “Never sit when you can stand, stand when you can walk, and walk when you can dance.” She was still dancing, albeit with her walker, just two months before she died. God bless you Lillie. You are missed.

Frank Hurst

Francis John Hurst was born May 16, 1914 in Paris, France, two months before the outbreak of WWI.  Following the war, Frank and his family led a normal life, working and attending school. He graduated high school in 1932 and attended one year of college before going to work as a pilot, surveying and mapping western Africa.
“ I caught malaria and was pronounced dead two times!” In 1934, he moved to England where he met and married  his wife Lila.  When WWII broke out in 1939, Frank enlisted in the British army and was assigned to the British Army Intelligence Corp.  Due to his knowledge of the French language, culture and landscape, Frank became an aid to General Dwight Eisenhower and was instrumental in the planning and execution of the D-Day invasions.  Several days after D-Day, he parachuted into France to continue planning the allied invasion and the liberation of Paris.  “I'm not a hero.  I wasn't in combat, but I like to think that I helped save a few lives.”   Following the war, Frank went to work at Kodak Ltd.  In 1957, the company transferred him to Canada, where he continued to work until retiring.  In 2010, his wife Lila died after 76 years of marriage. 

You seem to be in a very good mood?

I've had a happy life. I've been very, very lucky. I don't think anyone could have had a better life than mine. I've had adventure, joy, sorrow; I've had everything. It's been good, and I'm so happy with my life now. I'm very, very fortunate, and I have quite a good philosophy of life I think.

What is that philosophy? Contentment. Taking things one day at a time and not getting too serious about unfortunate mishaps.

But a lot of people aren't happy with their life. What makes you so happy?

Because I accept life as it comes. I realize that I can't always be happy, but I try to make the best of it. I've always made the best of every circumstance I've been in, whether I've been in danger, or in personal situations or what have you. I've always tried to make the best of it. I've always taken the view that things could always be worse than what I'm in, but I don't worry about it. I take care of what I can, and what I can't take care of, to hell with it. (laughs) My philosophy is pretty simple. Take life as it comes, and enjoy it for what it is. And it's been the story of my life.

Did that philosophy help you when you wife died?

Oh very much so. When my wife passed away, that was hard. I didn't realize how much I was in love and how much I'd missed her. When she passed away, there was an immense void (pointing to his heart). I remember going to the funeral; that was terrible. I thought that was the end of everything. When I kneeled in front of her coffin, to me, it was the end of the world. I thought that was the end of my life. Then, the day after, I realized it wasn't.

How did you get through that?

I just took it one day at a time. It took me awhile, but gradually I adjusted. I began to realize that I was still around, and I had to make the best of my life. That's always been my attitude. I take the view that I am very fortunate to be alive. What has happened, has happened and there's nothing I can do about it....and what's going to happen, will happen. Like today, if something happens, I take the best that I can out of it. I don't dwell on the past and groan about my misfortune. What's the point of that? It is what it is. If I die tomorrow I've had a good life, if I live on, I'll still have a good life.

Do you have any regrets?

I've never consciously tried to do the wrong thing. I've never been cruel by intention, but I have unintentionally hurt people and I regret that. I had a very good marriage, but I was unfaithful. It was just a passing thing, you know. That was it, but I regret that now. I was ashamed because my wife was a very, very decent woman. She knew something was going on, but she never played around. Eventually, she forgave me and we had a very good relationship, but if I could go back, I wouldn't do it. I'd be faithful because I hurt her. All that did was hurt people.

To what do you attribute your long life?

I think what's kept me going is my attitude about life.....otherwise I'm sure I'd be dead by now.

I'm a very fortunate man in every way. I've got my wits, I've got my health, I've got good friends, I've got a nice girlfriend, my two daughters stay in touch with me.....I've got good relationships. I'm enjoying life. Philosophically, I take a positive look on life. You know, I've had some very happy moments and some very, very sad moments but they're part of life. I accept what comes and do the best I can with it. I'm very content with whats happened to me and what's coming to me. My health has been really good. I don't drink much, but I do like the odd nip. I think I was drunk once back in the army, and I was so sick I swore I'd never do it again. I'm very moderate with everything I do. I used to smoke, but not heavily. I eat what I like, but I don't eat things that are bad for me. My father lived to 102, and my mother lived to 97, so I've got good genes. I'm not worried about being sick. If I die tomorrow, I've had a good life. If I live another ten years, that's fine. I'm not worried about it. Que sera, sera...What will be, will be. Tomorrow is tomorrow. Today is today. All in all, I would be described as a very contented person. I'm happy up here. (pointing to his head) That's more important than down here (pointing to his heart), but I'm quiet happy here too. Mental attitude is what does it.... I think that's what keeps me going.

Do you ever think about dying?

Oh no. Not at all. I'm going to live forever (laughing). No....I never think about dying. Sometimes when I'm ill I feel concerned, but that's it. I've never thought about actually croaking. I think that's what's keeping me alive. I'm not worried what's going to happen to me tomorrow. Today is today, period. What happened yesterday, happened. Some was good, some not so good, but that's that, it happened and I can't change it. I'm fortunate to still be here, but if I drop dead tomorrow, I'll be smiling five minutes before (laughing)! Life has been good, and it continues to be good.... right down to the last minute.

Are you afraid of dying?

Nope! If I die tomorrow, I die tomorrow. That's it. Honestly I've had a very good life, and I'm very happy and I'm contented. I never think about either going to heaven, or down there (pointing downward). To me it will be just a termination, but I won't be thinking about where I'm going.

So do you believe in God?

Oh yeah. I don't consider myself a religious person but I have beliefs. I'm not a church goer per say.... but I'll go now and again....but I'm not registered as a member. I think you can be faithful without being religious. I think faith is God-made while religion is man-made. I've done some good things and some bad things but by and large I think I lived a very very good, interesting, happy life and I think I'll make it for a few more years (smiling).

Today, Frank lives in a retirement center in southern Ontario. “I have two daughters, three grandchildren and one great grandchild. I'm a very, very fortunate man.” Of all the people I have interviewed, I don't think I have ever met another person with such a positive mental attitude. His philosophy on life has fundamentally changed the way I view events in my own life. Let's face it, life happens.....and many times there is nothing we can do about it. The best we can hope for is to change the things we can, and accept the things we can't. Sometimes life is unfair, I can't change that, so all I can do is look for the best in each situation and move on. I know it sounds simpler than it really is, but Frank Hurst is proof that it works. Thank you, Frank, for the wisdom. You have changed my life.

Below is a link to an audio interview of Frank talking about World War II. It is definitely worth listening to.

http://www.thememoryproject.com/stories/1022:frank-j.-hurst/